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We have like, phones with 4gigs of RAM and a processor that can put some computers of previous decade to shame.

Imagine if this shit just stopped improving and we started optimizing. Would that be crazy or what?

I mean fuck. first iPhones had more number crunching in them than the machine that sent apollo to the fucking moon.
There's no fucking excuse.

@Deiru the Apollo 11 guidance computer was built for that one specific purpose. it's more accurate to say we've got mini-supercomputers in our pockets.

but we are optimising. we're going back to 6502 and z80 8-bit computing and learning how to build hobby computers again, but smaller and more complex this time.

@Deiru Sure, we have more power, but this is kinda like a Jevons paradox. Companies won't hire assembly / C / Rust / whatever hackers to write optimal code.

I mean, they won't even let their current interpreted language employees spend any time on code optimization.

Of course that if you add more horsepower, what will happen is that companies will just seek to cut costs, that's what they always do.

Unless market forces conspire, we won't just have efficient programs sprout out of the ground.

@trickster The difference here is that unlike with coal, you don't have to mine more shit. Everyone and their mom probably have a few devices from "last generation" just lying around, not to mention every device we currently own from this one.

@trickster Plus back in the day of origin of this paradox, ppl didn't care that much about recycling. If people were to collectively just donate their devices towards recycling, all that material can be extracted and used to create new things from things we alreday have.

We have SO MUCH ELECTRONIC JUNK with perfectly salvagable components lying around, just ask Louis Rossman.

@Deiru I agree with you there (complete detour, this paradox is *still* at play when it comes to energy efficiency)

a lot of these thinks don't make any sense, you're saying it's cheaper to pump the oil out of the ground, ship it to the other end of the world, process the shit out of it, make billions of plastic single-use spoons and then throw them away, then it is, I don't know, rinsing your own spoon, plastic or no? I don't buy it for one second

@trickster There's other way, if we suddenly come to, say, deadwall in terms of how much performance one can extract from hardware, period. But that also spells doom for hardware companies.

@Deiru depending on who you're asking we've already reached it, except that it's only affecting compiler writers for now

@Deiru the current trend is the industry is less about cramming more transistors on a die (where we're basically reached the physical limits of it) and coming up with smarter architectures and other bollocks on top (which is why you're seeing more multi-core stuff) so the above is kind of a lie, we're just searching different avenues

there are physical limits to heat, though, especially on mobile, don't know if we reached that yet

@Deiru that's a good point, and this is a vicious cycle, hardware companies don't care if programs grow and become inefficient, because then they can sell more stuff to you in 2-5 years (especially in phones, tablets and other small mobile devices)

there is a demand, but they want to meet that demand in a way that doesn't satisfy it

Apple started selling a bit fewer phones and all hell broke loose

even if you're a company that sells phones for life, you won't keep up with the increase in software demands

@Deiru I'm currently watching my fancy iPhone get progressively worse with every version because the best-financed company in the world somehow can't handle it. Even people on the latest iPhones have the same trouble, so it's not the age.

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